Missing KEMO Animations

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danielmn
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by danielmn »

So fetch a DM for repercussion. Sounds good by me.
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kid
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by kid »

Dan,
are you worried new animations would make people more crazy...?

I mean the could have RPed it before.
but didnt.... but now that they have the animations
they wont be ablt to stop themselves?

I dont fully get it.

I trust our player and again ill say.... if anyone goes insane with or without anims...
RP will judge how we deal with it. dont think its a violation against alfa rules...
*shrugs* Doubt it will happen though.
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Swift
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Swift »

If someone decides it's time to get jiggy with it in the middle of the street, they suffer the consequences IC and have a DM try to correct them OOC
danielmn
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by danielmn »

Kid...if you read my initial post...I am less worried about current players...

And more worried about future players who may come aboard, see we have these animations, and make the assumption that certain acts are appropriate because we have these animations, without us really telling them...err, that's not really appropriate for the setting beforehand. If the intent is to handle the issue IG totally, sounds like a reasonable solution should one be able to get a hold of a DM. Hopefully something like what I am slightly concerned about never happens, as it is a small chance, but just wanted to run through options of how to handle scenarios that may present themselves..weather we want to rule against public ERP formally, or just handle IG completely. Weather we need to put warnings up or no, ect. Kept within the confines of privacy, I don't mind ERP one bit,...however, when it begins to involve players whom may be uncomfortable with the idea/that form of RP, it becomes an issue. Personally, I could care less about the animations myself...in my three years playing, I've BARELY seen any of the ones we already have used (and I am sure there will be a response of "I USE THEM ALL OF THE TIME!!!" probably my own veiw being affected by not rping with that person) so the fact that more are being added doesn't mean much to me at all. They'll be used for a month, and then fall to the wayside except for the people the animations are truely intended for in the first place, in which case, if I don't have to witness, I still don't really care. It's good to hash out the what ifs beforehand, rather than having to figure out what one should do in the instant that something happens.
Swift wrote: Permadeath is only permadeath when the PCs wallet is empty.
Zyrus Meynolt: [Party] For the record, if this somehow blows up in our faces and I die, I want a raise

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<danielmn>: Easily.

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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by thinkpig »

nothing to stop someone from ERPing in the streets *anyway*

even without the animations; IC local laws notwithstanding, what's to stop me from creeping you out with ERP on the street anyway?

I honestly believe my ability to type out such an RP would be potentially more offensive to someone uncomfortable with ERP than anything that can be done with animations.

As is, it's my understanding that ERPing with or in front of someone who is uncomfortable with it is not currently acceptable, nor do I think it should be. If someone's not comfortable they have a whole host of options, and anyone jackass enough to try and push them probably deserves a nice friendly ban-hammer. Assuming I am correct here, public ERP would be simply nonexistent. In order to do it with due etiquette, you'd have to get an OK from everyone on the server who has the propensity to walk into it, and there's no accounting for someone who logs in in the middle of it, which is totally possible if you're humping in front of the post office or something.

I guess my point is: Public ERP is already banned, isn't it? How does having the animations make that any different? Is the argument that it makes it more likely for someone to break the rules/do something offensive? I'm not buying that, and I don't see how this is any different than any other potential player issue. There are myriad rules in ALFA a player could break. Someone breaks the rules, we deal with them. Right?

Anyway I have never seen anyone ERP in public in ALFA. I'm sure it'll be okay.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Veilan »

Partly in response to this thread, I've started to prod the Admin body to formulate a common policy regarding these things, so that we can clearly communicate to new players what flies in that respect.

I do believe our mission statement so far is pretty clear in its ommission of, say, "TO CREATE YET ANOTHER CYB0R DEN!", but with some issues I guess people have to be whacked over the head ;).

As for the animations, it is a delicate balance: On the one hand, we don't want to restrict tools that may have fair uses, but on the other hand, giving the impression that erotical roleplay is a goal in itself in ALFA, and not just something that may happen if it is part of a believable and story-enhancing roleplay, would indeed run opposed to what we as a community want to stand for (or I hope we want to stand for).

So, the discussion, in my opinion, isn't really about "damage" this would cause - as rightly pointed out, roleplayers can use their creativity and imagination anyway - but about the message we might send and assumptions it could lead people to have.

Do you guys think a clear statement would be sufficient to counteract this? :chin:
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by I-KP »

Veilan wrote:Do you guys think a clear statement would be sufficient to counteract this? :chin:
I would say so, yes. If someone behaves in direct contravention of The Rules(tm) then they can expect to be ban-hammered to within an inch of their online life; thereby the defence of, 'I saw your hip grinding animation and saw that as tacit sanction of bestiality,' would hold no water.
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Zelknolf »

It wouldn't be end-of-the-world complexity to add some help text to the GUI to the tune of "Careful-- some of these animations aren't appropriate for use in public!"

Seems to guise itself as a helpful warning while reminding that ALFA expects characters to behave like they're in public when they're in public (with implied consequence if they violate social norms too hard).
danielmn
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by danielmn »

Veilan wrote:Partly in response to this thread, I've started to prod the Admin body to formulate a common policy regarding these things, so that we can clearly communicate to new players what flies in that respect.

I do believe our mission statement so far is pretty clear in its ommission of, say, "TO CREATE YET ANOTHER CYB0R DEN!", but with some issues I guess people have to be whacked over the head ;).

As for the animations, it is a delicate balance: On the one hand, we don't want to restrict tools that may have fair uses, but on the other hand, giving the impression that erotical roleplay is a goal in itself in ALFA, and not just something that may happen if it is part of a believable and story-enhancing roleplay, would indeed run opposed to what we as a community want to stand for (or I hope we want to stand for).

So, the discussion, in my opinion, isn't really about "damage" this would cause - as rightly pointed out, roleplayers can use their creativity and imagination anyway - but about the message we might send and assumptions it could lead people to have.

Do you guys think a clear statement would be sufficient to counteract this? :chin:
Thanks....That's kinda what I was aiming for here.
Swift wrote: Permadeath is only permadeath when the PCs wallet is empty.
Zyrus Meynolt: [Party] For the record, if this somehow blows up in our faces and I die, I want a raise

<Castano>: danielnm - can you blame them?
<danielmn>: Yes,
<danielmn>: Easily.

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CloudDancing
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by CloudDancing »

Veilan wrote:Partly in response to this thread, I've started to prod the Admin body to formulate a common policy regarding these things, so that we can clearly communicate to new players what flies in that respect.

I do believe our mission statement so far is pretty clear in its ommission of, say, "TO CREATE YET ANOTHER CYB0R DEN!", but with some issues I guess people have to be whacked over the head ;).

As for the animations, it is a delicate balance: On the one hand, we don't want to restrict tools that may have fair uses, but on the other hand, giving the impression that erotical roleplay is a goal in itself in ALFA, and not just something that may happen if it is part of a believable and story-enhancing roleplay, would indeed run opposed to what we as a community want to stand for (or I hope we want to stand for).

So, the discussion, in my opinion, isn't really about "damage" this would cause - as rightly pointed out, roleplayers can use their creativity and imagination anyway - but about the message we might send and assumptions it could lead people to have.

Do you guys think a clear statement would be sufficient to counteract this? :chin:
Just remember a large of amount of quality RP happens on social servers EVEN if I feel that their efforts are disrespected, ill-placed, and the guidelines are so very loose some people blend IC with OC to such a high degree it edges on ludicrous. I feel they would be better to RP in a place where we have set guidelines and a grievance process that honors people's differing styles.

WITH my perspective, I know that even if we put in non-functional nude skins (not that we need them) and used the auto-remove collision scripts (that turn off in combat) Alfa as a whole has the infrastructure and guidelines to democratically enforce any incidents that might happen.

There is not much difference between saying "does a naked headstand* and using animations to do a naked head stand BUT every one in the vicinity can now SEE the naked head-standing so it better damn well be IC.

As far as regulating players from playing as they like privately THAT can only be circumvented by *gasp* Dming them.

((as a side note I heard recently one of our players told the DM to buzz off on interrupting their smoochery most foul. I was really really surprised. When I was playing low levels on TSM the social RP all started BECAUSE there was no dm for nearly three months! I started dming because of that in fact. And if I dm showed up, you dropped everything. Still voyuering and so forth as a DM is childish and you are better off just finding people who are dying for DM attention and who will respect a DM's time and energies.))
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by johnlewismcleod »

K...this thread illuninates a rather long (and for me confusing) discussion recently had in the Dm forum. I, being blissfully ignorant of Sims and likely naive about ERP, didn't understand where my peers "were coming from"...My apologies for that.

But at the risk of further annoying some of my dear friends here, I have to side with Cloud, Zelknolf, thinkpig and Co. on this issue...and really with BHM, Keryn, Audark, and Dergon who in the "Player Looting" thread stated quite convincingly that we shouldn't go overboard fixing problems that don't exist.

Is anyone humping in the streets?...I think not.

And besides the valid point of not panicking over problems that might come up "someday", I remain of the opinion (granted I'm somewhat old and naive) that ALFA IS very much about social RP.

Certainly our goal is to come as close as possible to the DnD game, but NWN has made it possible to breath new life into that game as was never possible in it's PnP form.

We all remember fondly our PnP days, but let's be honest...was there really any significant RP in PnP? As I recall it was mostly about drinking, rule mongering, and loot and XP acquistion with stick figures on a grid map. Great fun, sure...but not what brought me to NWN and has kept me with it ever since it's inception.

NWN has made it possible to truly inhabit the character and develop PC's that seem to live and breath. I hear some, leary about the Sims phenomenon and ERP saying that "true DnD ALFA style RP is all about adventure and hunting down and killing monsters", but I don't believe they really mean that. If that were the goal of ALFA we would all be tromping about the caves with Min/Max'ed PC's greedily killing and grabbing loot.

We don't, and that PG behavior is frowned upon quite specifically in the ALFA ruleset.

We all (or at least we all should) try to develop believable PC's that enrich our world and make it come alive for everyone. For some that may entail some private intimacy between PC's. For most we choose to keep that aspect strictly text or avoid it altogether, but I for one am not going to tell other players how to play their PC's beyond enforcing ALFA ruleset and encouraging immersion in their RP.

IC actions garner IC consequences...the concept covers most everything quite well, IMO.

Put the animations in, and if we have a problem in the future we deal with it...I suspect we won't, but I'm a hopeless optimist who believes in our community and trusts our players to use good judgement.
Last edited by johnlewismcleod on Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Swift
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Swift »

johnlewismcleod wrote:but I'm a hopeless optimist who believes in our community and trusts our players to use good judgement.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by johnlewismcleod »

I just learned today that "social RP" is now code for ERP in many or most circles.

I was blissfully unaware of this and I want to clarify that when I have used that term I meant immersive, well-rounded RP...nothing more.

I recall when I first joined an RP NWN server (Daggerford...long gone now :( ), I was a fairy crappy RPer myself, but even then I was annoyed that there seemed to be no difference between male and female PC's...the female PC's just seemed to be males with breasts.

I still find it annoying when I see PC's that seem "cardboard cut outs" with no emotional depth, but I firmly belief PC's can be invested with depth and passion without having to ERP to be "real", and I certainly don't want anyone to think I meant to imply otherwise.

I apologize if I seemed to be advocating something I didn't intend to...I was ignorant is all :oops:
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CloudDancing
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by CloudDancing »

I don't know who you are talking to but here is a lexicon:

Social RP:
It is being social, like talking, drinking, sharing your back-story, listening to others, and crying/weeping/dealing with your issues. It is going swimming. It is having bard contests and storytelling. It is funerals, weddings, and births. It is balls, dances, and ceremonies. It is not fighting or plotting or planning for war, killing, raping, murdering and/or seeking out bloodshed or profits via bloodshed. :pimp:

Erotic RP (ERP): I don't really need to tell you. Basically a two-person written romance novel. :luff:

Social Servers: Places where you can spend lots of time socializing but noted are well stocked for ERP play. :hug:

Bio: I need to go to the bathroom :bath:

Brb: Be right back! :depress:
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Re: Missing KEMO Animations

Post by Rumple C »

What a funny thread.

Related to the title, and related by association to ERP...

KEMO screws the "minor" races animation wise.

My hulking half orc, the bastion of gentleman like manliness, is forced to sit like a prissy school girl because of the lack of animations!

Jessel needs to spread his legs damnit!

When Jessel develops RSI and spine problems due to his inability to change seating positions, and is consequently overrun by something bigger than he is, I will surely have to go for one of the "standard" races, so I have the freedom to express myself.

With my legs open.
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