Small Weapons

New models, textures, & integration of 3rd party content.

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Galadorn
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by Galadorn »

Rotku wrote:That sounds like a call to roll up a gnome bard, with a top hat.
...or stick a red hot ice pick in you lower back, slide down a giant razor naked into a pool of iodine? either or seems equally painful to play out. ;)

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t-ice
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by t-ice »

Swift wrote:[
While it would be a somewhat OOC restriction, we could simply require all small weapons be restricted by race so that only small races can use them.
NWN2 already does this for other proficiencies, you're simply banned using the thing as opposed to getting a minus to-hit. Why not with size as well?

The scope of this whole project seems undefined. Small wizards wanting and getting quarterstaves sounds all nice and games. But the nwn2 system with weapon sizes is essentially that a small longsword is a shortsword, a small greataxe is a battleaxe, and so forth. Very few weapons don't have counterparts like that. Actually is there any other than a quarterstaff?

However, if you do want to re-make the items system so that every weapon and armor has a size, like it is SRD, then it's a whole different beast. What I think shouldn't be done is half-arsed midway point where some things sorta have a size in some ways but not in other ways, and these armors are one-size fits all. In other words, if you make small armors and weapons for small characters, then small characters also must not be able to use medium armors and weapons.

While some sillyness in armors is present in current system (hin and half-orc can just go and exchange suits), fixing the entire item size system is too much for too little gain imo. The current system works. And if you do want to re-make the system, start with armors, weapons are already well plausible.
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NESchampion
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by NESchampion »

t-ice wrote:
Swift wrote:[
While it would be a somewhat OOC restriction, we could simply require all small weapons be restricted by race so that only small races can use them.
NWN2 already does this for other proficiencies, you're simply banned using the thing as opposed to getting a minus to-hit. Why not with size as well?

The scope of this whole project seems undefined. Small wizards wanting and getting quarterstaves sounds all nice and games. But the nwn2 system with weapon sizes is essentially that a small longsword is a shortsword, a small greataxe is a battleaxe, and so forth. Very few weapons don't have counterparts like that. Actually is there any other than a quarterstaff?

However, if you do want to re-make the items system so that every weapon and armor has a size, like it is SRD, then it's a whole different beast. What I think shouldn't be done is half-arsed midway point where some things sorta have a size in some ways but not in other ways, and these armors are one-size fits all. In other words, if you make small armors and weapons for small characters, then small characters also must not be able to use medium armors and weapons.

While some sillyness in armors is present in current system (hin and half-orc can just go and exchange suits), fixing the entire item size system is too much for too little gain imo. The current system works. And if you do want to re-make the system, start with armors, weapons are already well plausible.
The merits of tackling a new armor system ought be discussed in it's own thread rather than derailing this one into said discussion. By all means, feel free to make such.

As for your suggestion that a small greataxe is a medium battleaxe, that's strictly speaking not true:

Small Greataxe: 1d10
Medium Battleaxe: 1d8

Further, there are weapons that don't have medium sized counterparts. What's the fit for a Small Scythe or Small Halberd among Medium size weapons?

What this amounts to is an increase in weapon variety and in some cases weapon damage for Small characters. If we find a way to properly implement the attack penalty that would be the best course in my mind; otherwise race restrictions are an alternate course that can be considered, though definitely not my preference.
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t-ice
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by t-ice »

Race restrictions to items are rather totally silly, though, if for no other reason than then every medium item needs to be restricted from halfling/gnome. Somehow this needs to go via base item properties?

And yes, the stats between the nwn2 weapons that stand for small aren't exactly the SRD stats for said weapons. But close enough. Making a whole range of weapons that are small-specific, if the medium stuff isn't medium-specific, sounds like cherry picking. The weapon size system should go both ways, either to fully incorporate items in sizes, or to not.

The staff makes sense outside this, it can be an important piece of RP item for wiz/sorc, stupidly denied for small in the nwn2 system. It's more accessory than weapon, anyway. And mace is superior to small quarterstaff wielded by a medium char.

So if you want and can change the whole weapon base item system to include sizes, fair enough and respect. It'd be nice in particular what comes to Deity specific weapons, many hin and gnome deities have battleaxe and warhammer, for one. It just sounds simpler to me to change those Deity favored weapons to their "nwn2 small X" weapons (handaxe and mace).

If you don't overhaul the entire system, "nwn2 small scythe" would be a 1d6 medium pierce weapon with x4 crit. As I recall, someone was asking for a pick in another thread some time back, and there even was found a pick base item in the NWNVault. It'd surely see more use than a small-specific item, too. And most likely a scythe model could be incorporated to that medium base item for the looks.
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Brokenbone
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by Brokenbone »

Why not just add all the staff models to the club possibilities, and occasionally call a club a "Small Staff of (Insert Magic Power)"? It'd happen to be 1d6 and one handed for most people, but so what? Pretend it's a Rod in that case. Wizards would be proficient.

We already have loads of insane club appearances (bones, broken bottles, board with nail through it), why not another dozen with shiny magic hood ornaments on top?

Might be a smaller, easier project.

Everyone can use clubs.
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hollyfant
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by hollyfant »

Brokenbone wrote:Why not just add all the staff models to the club possibilities, and occasionally call a club a "Small Staff of (Insert Magic Power)"?
Works for other weapons too: there's noting wrong with calling a short sword "Halfling Longsword".
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by t-ice »

Brokenbone wrote:Why not just add all the staff models to the club possibilities, and occasionally call a club a "Small Staff of (Insert Magic Power)"?
With the clubs already in, the grip on the weapon will likely be club-like, as opposed to staff-like. So even if the staff-club looks like a staff, the halfling wielder will wield it with both hands closely together.

Shortsword being halfling longsword should not have this issue.
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NESchampion
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by NESchampion »

t-ice wrote:If you don't overhaul the entire system, "nwn2 small scythe" would be a 1d6 medium pierce weapon with x4 crit. As I recall, someone was asking for a pick in another thread some time back, and there even was found a pick base item in the NWNVault. It'd surely see more use than a small-specific item, too. And most likely a scythe model could be incorporated to that medium base item for the looks.
Except that a scythe does piercing and slashing, while a pick just does piercing. Similarly as I pointed out, there is no functional medium replacement for a small halberd.

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For now it looks like we'll only be focusing on staves until a solution to coding the penalties on mis-sized weapons and making feats work properly, or another workaround is found.
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NESchampion
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by NESchampion »

Walking sticks? He's excited!
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He can run at talk folk with a spear too!
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Course, they can use a spear and shield now...
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Which looks pretty badass.
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Thanks for the work Zelk and co! :D :D :D
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Re: Small Weapons

Post by viigas »

REALLY NICE!!!
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