The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

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kid
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by kid »

Well... dying for being at -6 twice doesnt sound that bad to me.
you probably should have been dead in the first place.

Either way negative level or not I would much rather us preventing someone
hitting -6 (i.e someone that should have been dead most likly)
be healed in the next round and resume fighting.

I would seriously suggest that hitting -6 must somehow prevent toon
from fighting untill its able to rest fully.
I Dont want dead folk winning battles... thats nuts.

We may allow running away, but we can't allow someone who comes back from -6
to keep fighting. thats absuing the generosity given by the -6 rule.
its aimed to help you not lose a toon when you should have...
not to be able to beat an encounter that should have killed you.
just my 2 cents.

on side note, ppl keep getting to negative,
healed then getting dead right after. (and getting tech rezzed)
I may have missed it... (its a long thread)
but what is the plan regarding that?
Last edited by kid on Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Brokenbone »

I believe that point #3 of the original post, where "if you were at negatives... then healed... then hit within a round of the healing and not being stopped by the -6 thing" has been agreed to be undesirable and in need of fixing.

The other many many pages are just getting a little crazy. Seems there's the general idea that "something BAD" maybe should come with the "something GOOD" of not dying outright. That bad thing may be temp negative levels, temp negatives to certain rolls, temp inability to fight somehow, I don't know. Scripted / hak'd in I mean though, as opposed to an honor system of "if you're on death's door please don't leap into combat again."
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by t-ice »

bhm wrote:negative levels also kill if they go over actual character level...
I'm sure an exception that you're not taken below lvl1 can be coded in. Lvl1 is hard and harsh enough that the "honor system" of RPing it right, mentioned by BB above, oughta be well enough for a lvl1 getting floored.

(Note that you might still die to other sources of level drain while drained to lvl1 by consecutively hitting the -6 floor. But considering the CR where level drains come in, if your char level was appropriate for the fight to begin with, but got drained to lvl1 or 2 by hitting the -6 floor over and over, and then got offed by level drain, you more than earned your death :evil: )
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Blindhamsterman »

true t-ice, don't think i've seen anyone actually hit the -6 floor more than twice in a fight. (hell, i don't think i've seen more than two or three times in a single session)

It's possible that tech might have a way to actually verify how often hitting the floor in a single fight happens.

I'd say that in the sessions involving Elenaril that Ithildur and Ronan referenced - my toon hit negatives in nearly all the sessions, he certainly hit the floor twice in one session that springs to mind (we blundered into what should've been a TPK) and three sessions where he hit the floor once in a fight.

Question might be though - do we want some kind of penalty for just hitting negatives? (as honestly I think thats more where whack-a-mole comes in).

The effectNegativeLevel() wont wear off with resting as far as I know, and making it wear off with resting would make it wear off with resting regardless of source I'd think. But I really don't think our aim should be a perminant negative level without an expensive restoration as while sure some characters (high or low) can afford to pay for such things, a lot (again high or low) really can't. It also just acts as another area to nerf pure fighter types who have another money sink to worry about due to it.

Still, as BB says, it seems everyone agrees that there should be a downside to being saved from death by the floor - but we really ought to leave exactly how that down side works up to tech department.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Brokenbone »

Under the History / Background feats where things like "Harborman" could have gone, you end up with 50/50 chance of "Maimed" feat with all kinds of social skill penalties, or the "Covered in Sexy Wounds" feat with all kinds of social skill bonus. Done!
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by kid »

effects of level drain do ware off with resting.
did so for me every time.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Zelknolf »

The capacity for an effect to be cured by resting varies by the effect subtype.

ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_PERMANENT, EffectNegativeLevel(1), oTarget);
This can be dispelled, and goes away when resting.

ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_PERMANENT, ExtraordinaryEffect(EffectNegativeLevel(1)), oTarget);
This cannot be dispelled, but goes away when resting.

ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_PERMANENT, SupernaturalEffect(EffectNegativeLevel(1)), oTarget);
This does not go away unless actively cured or the server resets.


The same holds true for reduced ability scores.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Ronan »

I still think we need a ruling on valid tech rezes from floor failures. We've had a ton (Curm said six I think) #3 floor failures on TSM lately (due to a ton of combat). In a few cases it seemed like a "do something really stupid, get killed, then get a rez after the fight" sort of situation. Getting a tech rez afterwards is actually more survivable because hey, you don't have to live through the whole fight, just the bit up until you're tech-killed. It seems like 90-95% of the deaths on the server are ruled tech for some reason; I think we've had one real death in this time.

My thought is at some point the DM should say "the mobs used a standard action to finish your ass off, sorry".
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by t-ice »

Blindhamsterman wrote: Question might be though - do we want some kind of penalty for just hitting negatives? (as honestly I think thats more where whack-a-mole comes in).
I think it's been repeated several times that this isn't in the books. This kind of whack-a-moling is legit according to the rules, and also makes pretty good sense. When a combatant goes down, the enemies switch focus on others who are still swinging. While a DM could possess a creature to actively make a finishing blow, (a particularly cruel DM in my mind, but you have to take into account the circumstance), I think it also should be kept in mind that mobs wouldn't metagame and know which falling enemy died and which one is merely unconscious and dying. But if a PC keeps on whack-a-moling , with or without hitting the -6 floor, a DM might represent high-int mobs seeing the situation and possessing for the finishing blow.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Curmudgeon »

Yes, please. Is failure of the damage limiter after an unconscious PC has been healed during combat the way this system is supposed to behave or not? My understanding since Live has been that it is not.
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Ronan
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Ronan »

Curmudgeon wrote:Yes, please. Is failure of the damage limiter after an unconscious PC has been healed during combat the way this system is supposed to behave or not? My understanding since Live has been that it is not.
No, but for the most part DMs seem to have not given tech rezes for floor failures. I thought this was due to a DMA/PA ruling from way back? Or not? After all, its pretty difficult to die without floor failure unless AoEs are being tossed about (rare in the current TSM plot; orcs don't have a lot of casters) or you're dealing with a TPK.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Zelknolf »

Obviously DMA ruling to say how to handle the resulting deaths. Official word from tech is that's a bug, and we intend to fix it.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by johnlewismcleod »

I've not said it for a couple weeks, I think...so:

Thanks very, very much Zel! :D
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by Ronan »

Well unless I hear otherwise from Curm, I'll fix the bug and leave everything else as-is.
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Re: The -6 floor: Desired behavior & tech rezes.

Post by johnlewismcleod »

Oh, yeah...and thank you Ronan and Basil as well :D
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