Artist [Regional Feat]

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Zelknolf
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Artist [Regional Feat]

Post by Zelknolf »

So, we have this here post from Danielmn:
danielmn wrote:Background Feat - Artist

Vanilla feat gives +2 Perform/+2 diplomacy.

Since We have substituted multiple Perform instances for the single Vanilla perform, the +2 to perform is lost (though the +2 to diplomacy still functions as it should). Possible to modify the +2 perform to include all, or single perform, or substitute if that is found to be too much of a boon for another skill? ((though I don't see how it could be, as perform skills are mostly rp skills used in rp situations))
And we have this here entry from Player's Guide to Faerun, p 33
Artist [Regional]
Your people are renowned for their skill at story and song.
Prerequisite: Elf (Sildëyuir or Snow Eagle Aerie), Gnome (Thesk or the Western Heartlands), half-elf (the Dalelands), or human (Chessenta, Waterdeep, or the Western Heartlands).
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Perform checks and on checks with one Craft skill that involves art, such as calligraphy, painting, sculpture, or weaving. In addition, if you have the bardic music ability, you may use it three additional times per day. For example, a 3rd-level bard with this feat could use her bardic music ability six times per day.
Normal: A bard can use her bardic music ability once per day per bard level.
Special: You may select this feat only as a 1st-level character. You may have only one regional feat.

So, question 1: Does anyone feel super motivated and willing to draw up a design to make the canonical feat happen?

If the answer to question 1 is "No," would we object to just making it +2 to all perform skills and +2 to diplomacy until the answer to question 1 becomes "yes"?
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Re: Artist [Regional Feat]

Post by mr duncan »

Zelknolf wrote: would we object to just making it +2 to all perform skills and +2 to diplomacy until the answer to question 1 becomes "yes"?
Sounds great. Skill Focus Perform should also add to all the performances too I would hope

Would be nice to see Courteous Magocracy and Skill Focus Lore apply to all Knowledges too.
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Brokenbone
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Re: Artist [Regional Feat]

Post by Brokenbone »

Well, the canon feat clearly should be "all performs" and even a "craft" of your choice.

Moving ALFA's stuff to "all performs" but I suppose leaving "diplomacy" as is, I guess fine. It is difficult to powergame mastery of not only the drum, but stringed instruments and wind instruments and yada yada yada.

The "double bardsong" thing is kinda wow, but I do sure see it in Player's Guide to Faerun. Maybe a "someday" kind of thing.


***

As to Courteous Magocracy, NWN2 got that one wrong. It gives +2 to Lore and +2 to Spellcraft, PnP version would give +2 to Diplomacy and +2 to Spellcraft. I wonder what the heck happens to ALFA PCs who happen to pick this?
http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/feat ... _Magocracy

As to Skill Focus: Lore (or I suppose Skill Focus: Perform), those are, at a PnP level, supposed to apply to only a single skill per instance, not "all related subskills", no? If that's the case, turning them into +3 to (5 or more RP skills) maybe not a supportable idea. Again, I have never even looked for any Skill Focus: (deleted skill) feats on rare level ups, so haven't the foggiest what'd happen if taking them.
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Zelknolf
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Re: Artist [Regional Feat]

Post by Zelknolf »

These are really three different discussions here (and I don't think skill focus is really one? We just haven't produced a good implementation for it yet; the OE-provided skill foci work in ways that we don't have access to by script, which makes access to skill focus: knowledge and skill focus: perform tricky).

All of those things do need to be addressed, but I think we'd be well-served by focusing discussions on the task at hand. Hopefully just sign off on the things we're willing to just do, so that if one gets dramabombed, we don't filibuster the others. I have to disappear for a bit; I'll probably triage skill focus as a bug, and look for original text re: courteous magocracy this afternoon.
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Blindhamsterman
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Re: Artist [Regional Feat]

Post by Blindhamsterman »

ideally making artist align with the pnp version would be good, diplomacy doesn't really make sense for the theme of the feat (much as the lack of diplomacy for [u]Courteous[/u]Magocracy makes little sense)

the background feats and a few others are a mess anyway though, as there are supposed to be regional requirements for them - something I don't know if it's possible to pull off?
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Brokenbone
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Re: Artist [Regional Feat]

Post by Brokenbone »

We do not do regional requirements. Faerun is wide, ALFA is not. No one is expected to know that certain desirable feats require, say, a Dales background or a Moonsea background or whatever... places that we've been completely unable to represent.

I think Zelk's suggestion to stick to the initial call it "proposal" is a good one, since yeah, there's a few feats that might actually reference deleted / exploded skills that maybe we hadn't thought about for awhile. Artist is one of them, mentioned by a bard player.

I think the "suggestion #1" of aligning to PnP is lovely. But the double music business may cause much thrashing and groaning.

I think the "suggestion #2" of just leaving diplomacy +2 be (since we don't have artsy fartsy craft skills, we only have wpn, armor, or (the mostly placeholder for DM-approved substitute skills) trap), and doing an across the board +2 to any kind of perform sounds okay and actually achievable in the short term. The game only "pays attention" to your highest Perform skill anyhow as a kind of invisible skill if I partly understand AL's explanation in some recent bug discussions. So +2 to "all your less favored modes of performing", I don't see an in engine benefit of great weight, and it's probably a rare plot that is going to rely on RP skills of having to go through, say, a dungeon with rubbery doors you beat on, funny pipes you blow on, stringed fences you pluck at, all to win the shiny at the end.
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Zelknolf
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Re: Artist [Regional Feat]

Post by Zelknolf »

Brokenbone wrote:I don't see an in engine benefit of great weight, and it's probably a rare plot that is going to rely on RP skills of having to go through, say, a dungeon with rubbery doors you beat on, funny pipes you blow on, stringed fences you pluck at, all to win the shiny at the end.
I find your lack of faith... disturbing.

But more to the point: bard songs largely operate on ranks, rather than modifiers, anyway. The primary mechanical use for perform doesn't benefit from this (and won't, unless we figure out a really solid implementation for a more-canonical fascinate), so we really are down to the dungeons from Legend of Zelda, and whatever RP or quest-related benefits come from being a skilled artist and musician, here, and don't really have to worry about terrible terrible farmers using their higher primary perform skill to kill all the goblins-- let alone the secondary ones.
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