PnP Coins

Thangorn · Post by **Thangorn** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:23 pm

Has someone had occasion to pull this system apart?

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... ail&id=135

I really dont see how it can work with standard merchants as it is claimed without a hak for item value.. any comments?

I'm posting in ACR because I thought it was most pertinent here.

Mulu · Post by **Mulu** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:03 am

There was one that worked with standard merchants in NWN1, IIRC, but the problem was you weren't able to choose how the coins got allocated. I suspect this one would work the same way. Basically the standard merchant just sees your gp total, and the script juggles the coins. Can't give you any better analysis than that, as I'm a computer noob.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:11 am

Something to look at when the time comes. Leareth made us coins to use for this a while ago (alternate tints of the existing gold icon).

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:00 am

I downloaded this earlier today, the 2da edit is really minor, just one extra row. It looks like it wouldn't be too hard to work into our framework- though we may need to standardize merchant events.

I don't think it's worth holding the ACR update on, but we could sneak the 2da edit into the haks for testing for now.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:46 am

If everything is still priced in gold, what is the point of having all the other types of coins?

Thangorn · Post by **Thangorn** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:23 pm

If everything is still priced in gold, what is the point of having all the other types of coins?

That was my point.
I think it is worth doing but afaik we still have to work out how to price items under 1gp, etc.

to my mind this is a medium to long term project in terms of priority but I guess retrofitting modules with this stuff will be a huge pita which moves it forward in the schedule of priorities if we are going to choose to roll with it.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:31 pm

The main advantage of a system like this, is that we can have drops that are less than one gp, without being 0. Since it doesn't allow buying things like food, simple supplies, etc in copper or silver- the lesser coinage may start to be more hassle than it's worth, esp as coin has weight in this vault system. They note in the documentation that servers should include portable and light ways to transport wealth, like gem merchants- to give PCs ways to get rid of the evergrowing piles of pocket change.

Maybe best to wait on this one for now- I'd like to see supply of lesser coins tied in with ways to use the smaller coins- so we get added RP value out of the system.

Thangorn · Post by **Thangorn** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:38 am

to me it seems like to too much hassle with too little to gain.

The only things I can think of where it enhances roleplay value is when buying booze, food or getting a room. Since alfa players spend a fair percentage of time in taverns and inns, maybe it is worth it. *shrug*

1gp in realms canon is supposed to buy alot of basics like a roof over your head and food on your table, when we are talking about persistent worlds where the opportunity to make cash can be.. well persistent, maybe using a pnp coin system will assist us in balancing overall player wealth. It can only really work once we have items that you can purchase with these coins however.

Really in game mechanics terms, what these coins will likely do is nerf player wealth. This will be due to the probability that monster and DM drops will include a greater percentage of copper and silver where as now, gold is the coin of choice.

In Roleplay terms, I'm a realms purist but I'm not sure I as a player want my character to spend a half hour out of limited play time to go and change all the coppers I found into readily exchangable gold. Exchanging cash in pnp takes bugger all time so it makes it more viable.

anyway, I'm just kicking ideas around and I've kind of talked myself in to suggesting we dont go ahead with a pnp coin system as it may not suit alfa's persistent play style. Theres probably another thread to discuss this somewhere however.

AcadiusLost · Post by **AcadiusLost** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:54 am

I think we'll have a coinage system eventually- though I think we have a consensus that this vault system as is, isn't worth leveraging in. Once we've got the basics of the ACR ironed out- we may revisit the idea and see if we can't make it give the pluses to go with the limitations.

Post by **Veilan** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:45 am

You might wish to check with Sandermann, he had a fine comparable coin system running for one of his modules, the idea is to have a merchant window open before the real merchant where you can sell coin-items for NWN gp. Of course, as noted, the drawback to immersion was that the merchant changed back the coins as to your gold value starting witht he highest possible coin type. However if you don't swap more coins than you need for the purchase, that's a non-issue. And if you don't, I suppose one could argue you changed your 10 silver to 1 gold with the merchant.

Systems like that would have the added benefit to beautifully allow regional currencies, moneychangers with varying change rates etc..

Additionally, let's not forget that we have one very simple, yet unelegant solution - by saying that 1 gp is one copper, 10 gp are one silver, and 100 gp are one gold coin. Multiply all values in goild by 100 and voilà, neither fractional reward values nor the inflation of sub-gold items are an issue anymore. Regardless, I doubt a system that has you pay 2000 NWN gp for a 20gp sword will find many supporters for sheer aesthetical reasons (unless we get a big influx of asians suddenly, I guess).

By and large, I guess it's a consideration of how high a priority it is, and how much effort seems reasonable to invest, seeing how stretched our scripting capacities are.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:17 am

The standards team would need to go back and alter acceptable wealth levels as well should we introduce coins smaller than gold pieces.

To be honest, with the very small amount of coders working on things in ALFA atm (Its what, 2 or 3?) i cannot see the point of spending time and effort on what would be at best a minor gain, at worst a waste of time.

ç i p h é r · Post by **ç i p h é r** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:52 pm

http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpbbforum/ ... p?p=351723

It's on the list, and having the framework in place is actually rather high in terms of priority so we avoid a potentially large retrofit scenario down the road. Our plan was to have Copper and Silver item properties, BTW.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:54 pm

Just seems like the gains we would get are far outweighed by having to code the framework, alter merchants, correct the toolset pricing, change the wealth standards and retain our DMs.

It really does feel like minor gains for major work.

What is so wrong with just using the already built in and working gold pieces like we have done since ALFA first stepped into Beta? (I hope nobody says realism)

Edit: Is ronan even still with us anymore? Wouldn't things he is listed to do be better to focus on over writing a currency system from the ground up?

Forgive me, i just don't see the logic.