ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

For discussion and formation of server proposals and teams.
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Brokenbone
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Brokenbone »

Any server that makes use of the "phatlewt" system, (if you've ever seen a "You discover something!" and a chest or pile or rubble or bag or whatever appears with little loots in front of your Searching PC, you've seen phatlewt), I'm going to suggest that there could be raised eyebrows if someone who can SEE triggers with their DM avatar, can later STOMP those triggers with their PC.

If Shining Sea has phatlewt... peek at a trigger with DM avatar then farm it with PC would be a pattern to look for.

If it doesn't, then that's cool too.

Yeah it can be equally exploitative to know where the waypoints are for monsters to spawn, but monsters at least may try to beat you up unlike a poor defenseless (okay, maybe trapped) little chest.

Not sure if I'd exactly call phatlewt a static though... finding these hidden things is kind of a mini-game I guess where you get GP but no XP (except disarming traps I think a couple of XP can pop up in cases).
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Zelknolf »

If you are on any server where phat lewt is controlled by triggers, update your phat lewt. Yours is old.


Phat lewt should be operating on spawnable areas of effect now. Which should be visible from the chooser, of course, but there shouldn't be yellow boxes on the ground and the position shouldn't be consistent or predictable-- both because modules brought forward concerns of farming/metagaming and because tech wished the use of mechanics with more-reliable events and more-reliable placement (a lot of the same reasons we redid traps, really).

Doesn't stop DMs from knowing which areas have phat lewt in them, 'course, but it should be difficult to use that knowledge to the ends of enormous stacks of unearned wealth.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Brokenbone »

My TSM-knowledge is many many moons stale (6 mo +) but I do remember hearing that phatlewt was going to get tied to waypoints and not so much to triggers. Mixing up waypoints once in awhile for over-farmed areas, a lot less effort than re-drawing boxes and such as triggers. Cool that it all evolved, though I don't know who all took advantage of a new system being available.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

I've seen messages about phatlewt in the DM channel. I didn't really know what it was or how it worked until now. I don't have any intentions of implementing it, but perhaps some other contributor might want to do so. Can address it if and when it comes up I guess.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Brokenbone »

http://www.alandfaraway.org/phpBB3/view ... =phat_lewt

Apparently this topic is way out of date, I guess a better faster stronger system is something Zelknolf could describe or knowing Zelknolf, probably has described already. This stuff at least used to be accurate during me on TSM, but hey. If you start playing a TSM PC you will soon start to stumble across boxes and bags and chests and things then you will say "ok so that's what the experience at the player end is, cool."
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

Oh right, I drop the treasure placeables, which are phatlewt. I know they work on BG, but not on two other servers. Haven't checked them on the fourth. I can double check on WHL and MS later tonight.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Brokenbone »

DMs can drop them sure, but the more likely encounters PCs have with this stuff is DMless. Chest pops out of nowhere in the middle of their mail run. Digression.

All I was pointing out was "this is common stuff in ALFA, DMs get to know their modules, tripping over chests with your DM-PC could raise a stink." Or corpses of other PCs or items left behind for yourself in some dungeon or whatever. If hubs are stripped and tough to exploit, different consideration.
ALFA NWN2 PCs: Rhaggot of the Bruised-Eye, and Bamshogbo
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by boombrakh »

I know this goes against the fundamental views of ALFA, but how about we just trust people not to exploit things and then maybe do something about it if it becomes a problem? I know "trust" is a curse word around here, but I mean, instead of assuming everyone will go scouting with their DM-avatars and then go "stomping" with their PCs we just give people the benefit of a doubt and correct the ones that can't handle responsibility? Either that, or we assume everyone is guilty of everything and we spend tons of resources building walls to prevent anyone from doing anything. Resources that could be way better spent somewhere else.

But hey, ALFA isn't ALFA if we're not making rules about stuff, right?
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From Greek pragma "deed," the word has historically described philosophers and politicians who were
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

We will be trusting people not to exploit things, as well as removing as many potential temptations as possible. I really expect it to be a non-issue. Also, our community is currently very trustworthy and there is little abuse happening that I am aware of. All is well... though we could use more builders. 8)
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Zelknolf »

People don't think that "everyone" will abuse their power. They think that "someone" will.

All plausible plans must account for the full diversity of the groups involved. Even though the vast majority of people are good folk-- or at least try to live their lives in a way that makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else-- there's small percentages of the population which aren't, and we're a large enough community for those small percentages to be tangible.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by boombrakh »

Zelknolf wrote:People don't think that "everyone" will abuse their power. They think that "someone" will.

So, we're all "suspects" just because there is a chance someone might do something that really doesn't hurt anyone and is easily rectified?
Zelknolf wrote: Even though the vast majority of people are good folk-- or at least try to live their lives in a way that makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else-- there's small percentages of the population which aren't, and we're a large enough community for those small percentages to be tangible.
That last part just made me laugh. I love how we're using just about any rethoric we can to justify persecution or to implement the ability to give ourselves excuses to scrutinize our members.

I don't see why we can't start with allowing access and then for those who can't handle the responsibility, limit that access?

Look, you do what you want really. I don't really care as long as you don't use your self-proclaimed right to persecute our members.
pragmatic (adj.)
The opposite of idealistic is pragmatic, a word that describes a philosophy of "doing what works best."
From Greek pragma "deed," the word has historically described philosophers and politicians who were
concerned more with real-world application of ideas than with abstract notions. A pragmatic person
is sensible, grounded, and practical.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Zelknolf »

So, we're all "suspects" just because there is a chance someone might do something that really doesn't hurt anyone and is easily rectified?
That's an interesting reading of it-- but no, not at all, and it would be a completely-unsustainable stance if we tried. The purpose of "DMing where you play" restrictions, of fixing exploits, and of removing temptation is to reduce the number of instances where problems might come up is so that we can shrug and dismiss complaints, because those complaints will be unreasonable. But there will be complaints, because ALFA has plenty of rumors and plenty of vitriol.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

As much as I've enjoyed our philosophical discussion, perhaps we could pursue it elsewhere? I'd like to keep this thread keyed in on the server proposal. I suppose there is no harm in continuing this discussion here if we intentionally stick to topics that are specific to a campaign server for Live PCs. Just want to avoid a rambling conversation that doesn't contribute to a better module. 8)
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by boombrakh »

HEEGZ wrote:As much as I've enjoyed our philosophical discussion, perhaps we could pursue it elsewhere? I'd like to keep this thread keyed in on the server proposal. I suppose there is no harm in continuing this discussion here if we intentionally stick to topics that are specific to a campaign server for Live PCs. Just want to avoid a rambling conversation that doesn't contribute to a better module. 8)
Agreed. Sorry for my part in derailing it.
pragmatic (adj.)
The opposite of idealistic is pragmatic, a word that describes a philosophy of "doing what works best."
From Greek pragma "deed," the word has historically described philosophers and politicians who were
concerned more with real-world application of ideas than with abstract notions. A pragmatic person
is sensible, grounded, and practical.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

Not an issue. The topic is relevant to the project. Would just like to keep it focused towards resolving specific issues and not purely theoretical.
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