ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

For discussion and formation of server proposals and teams.
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kid
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Re: ALFA 099 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by kid »

Cool beans.
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HEEGZ
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Re: ALFA 099 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

Castano wrote:At a minimum I want this server available to all ALFA DMs - otherwise it's utility as an ALFA campaign server is limited and we are just really getting another "live" server with changed up areas, which any existing live server like BG could do already.

If we keep a 30 no play rule on it, that's fine they just won't play w/in 30 days of their DM session there. I'm not a fan of that but many in the community think this 30 day thing is sacrosanct.
The server would be available for any ALFA DM to request access for campaign usage. I don't think we'd open it to every DM by default, although that is probably fine.

As for DMs playing a PC there, that is a whole separate issue which I think I'll bring up in a new thread. We are getting small enough as a community that I think we need to seriously consider this topic. Jern mentioned it yesterday and I agree with him. We trust these people to DM us and run our game, can we really not trust them to play a PC? I'll make a post in main forum later.

Also, I'll renumber the server to 024. Tharsult technically falls into 025 territory with Halruaa, but I think I'd rather fudge the line for 024 and include it with Chult and the majority of the Shining Sea. Thoughts?

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Last edited by HEEGZ on Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Brokenbone
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Re: ALFA 099 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Brokenbone »

If it's up 24/7 then it means "people can wander around and beat stuff up" which means the "no DM where play" sentiment is going to be as strong as ever.

If it's up 24/7 but happens to be only "3-4 hub areas but you can't go anyplace interesting without your campaign DM", then the sentiment above may still be as strong but for no good reason.

If it's up for campaign usage only (i.e., up 20 minutes before a scheduled session and shut down 10 minutes after the DM calls it a night), again, sentiments will be strong but for even less good reason. A supervising DM will know if a DM-colleague is playing with them and keeps stumbling into only the creampuff monsters or into secret doors to fabulous treasures or whatever other exploits are being envisioned as possible.

*shrugs*
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HEEGZ
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Re: ALFA 099 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

The plan is for the server to be online 24/7 just like the other servers. The content will be more limited in scope. The hubs will depend on how much gets built by people I guess. We seem to have a dearth of people willing or able to script content, so there wouldn't be a whole lot to do without a DM (besides RP) unless something changes.

[edit]
I'm not sure I want to start a separate discussion about the playing where you DM topic. I need to know more about the pros and cons first. Also, it seems like it might be easier to just change the 30 day rule, or allow HDMs to override it, which I am sure we have precedent for already.
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Re: ALFA 099 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Swift »

While I am a proponent of being able to play where you DM, iirc meta and favoritism concerns are the main reasons that Curm always cited for not allowing it and they are not insignificant concerns.

Then again, people freely meta in chat all the time without concern, so perhaps our 'Don't meta' rule is outdated which would remove one of the main concerns.
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Re: ALFA 099 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Adanu »

I'd be happy to guest DM for WHL stuff here occasionally.

I won't do it if it means Zyrus isn't allowed here though.
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Re: ALFA 099 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Castano »

I'm still in favor of all ALFA DMs in good standing being allowed to run campaigns there. If we create gates where the HDM of a campaign server gets to pick and choose who DMs there I thinks that's a bit much for something like this. I'm open to considering an approved list of GDMs for it if the 024 team feels strongly some people should not be on there as DMs. It is your build after all.

keep in mind maintaining this is going to be a chore with DMs demanding their areas be popped on at the last minute etc. I had that issue on MS before - it got burn out-like to be pinged in chat 1 day before when I had a RL work deadline to add crap for a session on Saturday - you feel like you are letting people down by not being there at the drop of a hat.

My suggestion: set clear submission due dates for campaign areas and stick to them.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

We can set up a submission deadline of a week's notice or something, good idea.

As for DMs, if someone is approved as an ALFA DM that is good enough for me I guess. I would be okay with the server being open to any Live DM using it. However, I would plan on granting requests for a shortening of the 30 day delay to play a PC, for DMs who request it. I'm up for discussing options here, and for the record, I have no issues with DMs playing a PC where they DM. Not sure if we would want to experiment with this idea on this server.

Also, I've gone back and edited the OP to reflect the renumbering to 024 from 099. Will do the same to the forum and usergroup now.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Castano »

I think we should talk about DMA giving 024 a waiver of the 30 day rule, subject to revocation for individual DMs if they engage in bad stuff. I'm not crazy about seeing arguments in the forums about how we are destroying ALFA etc., but for this server, given it will be used sporadically for only campaigns in very random and changing locales, unless you are true tavern RP masochist who enjoys a stripped down hub area only, I don't see a need to prevent meta leakage
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Zelknolf »

Might be worthwhile to formally lay down a rule on the theme of "You may never have a character who owns an item you muled in for any reason"-- on a campaign server, I would expect either that or CvC would be the places where looser access restrictions would really get hackles up (though, really, if you expect to own an item you're muling in on any server, obvious conflict of interests is obvious).

We can also set up the ALP to sniff for this, but we'd need to have the server's HDM proficient and regularly checking if we want to rely on as much.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by HEEGZ »

Castano wrote:I think we should talk about DMA giving 024 a waiver of the 30 day rule, subject to revocation for individual DMs if they engage in bad stuff. I'm not crazy about seeing arguments in the forums about how we are destroying ALFA etc., but for this server, given it will be used sporadically for only campaigns in very random and changing locales, unless you are true tavern RP masochist who enjoys a stripped down hub area only, I don't see a need to prevent meta leakage
Sounds about right to me.
Zelknolf wrote:Might be worthwhile to formally lay down a rule on the theme of "You may never have a character who owns an item you muled in for any reason"-- on a campaign server, I would expect either that or CvC would be the places where looser access restrictions would really get hackles up (though, really, if you expect to own an item you're muling in on any server, obvious conflict of interests is obvious).

We can also set up the ALP to sniff for this, but we'd need to have the server's HDM proficient and regularly checking if we want to rely on as much.
The CvC rules would be the same as the other servers. We can clarify that there should not be DM muling of items for one's PC, which should go without saying, but we can make it explicit. I will just ask that DMs follow Castano's instructions and post muled in items to the DM thread for that purpose.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Zelknolf »

HEEGZ wrote:The CvC rules would be the same as the other servers. We can clarify that there should not be DM muling of items for one's PC, which should go without saying, but we can make it explicit. I will just ask that DMs follow Castano's instructions and post muled in items to the DM thread for that purpose.
Well, it's come up even with crossing server boundaries needed for the items to get back to the DM's PC. It is unfortunate that few things can actually go without saying-- but few things can actually go without saying.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Castano »

No DM has ever managed the creation of the item their PC was intended to end up with (ex. X's PC X' crafts for Y's PC Y', DM Y approves the crafting of the item is a no no.) The few times I have asked WHL to handle the hand over for me was because I was away, but the items were approved by me and me alone - I am not sure who the end intended owner of the item was in these cases. I would expect other DMs to hold to the same standard. e.g. 3rd party DMs are in charge of approving all items that may flow w/in a faction they are a member of.
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by mr duncan »

Castano wrote: unless you are true tavern RP masochist who enjoys a stripped down hub area only, I don't see a need to prevent meta leakage
Actually we have some statics and low to low/mid level adventure planned for the hub areas of Tharsult and Fort Belurian. You will not have to be a masochist to play there. You can even live there if you like the hub(s)


J
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Re: ALFA 024 - Proposal - The Shining Sea

Post by Castano »

mr duncan wrote:
Castano wrote: unless you are true tavern RP masochist who enjoys a stripped down hub area only, I don't see a need to prevent meta leakage
Actually we have some statics and low to low/mid level adventure planned for the hub areas of Tharsult and Fort Belurian. You will not have to be a masochist to play there. You can even live there if you like the hub(s)


J
Noted. Did not mean to disparage the build, just saying by it's terms this is a not a full on server with piles of content that could potentially be exploited and thus will (1) be less tempting and (2) easier to monitor. But yeah I totally plan on farming your statics after my DM avi tests them out :P
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