The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

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Brokenbone
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Brokenbone »

http://www.alandfaraway.org/node/2186 <-- for vs.

That's "around" as clear as we seem to get, but the allowed/not allowed is some kind of inclusivity (or was it exclusivity?) principle.

Basically meaning "if you don't see a price for it, it isn't legal", mostly as demonstrated by say, feats on items. Quite rare even in PnP. ALFA has a somewhat short list of feats you can slap onto items legally, though there's obviously like, 100 other feats that we don't list. That actually means "only the priced ones we do, rest not legal." So Circlet of Feat: Darkvision, legal (as I see a 2500 price for it). Ring of Feat: Lightning Reflexes, illegal (no price listed anyplace). However, since that feat only grants +2 reflex saves, it's a "so what, make a ring of +2 reflex, perfectly legal, call it a day."

There's a zillion things the toolset can do. Arrows that cast disintegrate on hit, ring of +10 STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA, you name it. We have limits though so hey. There are also super efficient combinations in cases undreamt of in PnP that we do permit. People can get pretty clever about bargain / efficient items!
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Ithildur »

Brokenbone wrote: There are also super efficient combinations in cases undreamt of in PnP that we do permit. People can get pretty clever about bargain / efficient items!
Yeah... I really have to wonder about some stuff. I'm generally in favor of supporting crafters, but if someone asked me about something ridiculous and unsupported in 3.5e I'd frankly be very hesitant.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Stormbring3r »

Also.. How about fixing the "if someone made it its not worth crap if a player sells it later on" bug..
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kid
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by kid »

Well as cant say much about a CDM, but if any tsmers have crafting needs, shoot me a PM / tell
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Swift »

Stormbring3r wrote:Also.. How about fixing the "if someone made it its not worth crap if a player sells it later on" bug..
Might exist for the automated crafting in game, but if the person making the item in the toolset is worth their salt, they would be setting the items price correctly so it can be vendored for what it is worth.

Other players might haggle on the value, though.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Stormbring3r »

Swift wrote:
Stormbring3r wrote:Also.. How about fixing the "if someone made it its not worth crap if a player sells it later on" bug..
Might exist for the automated crafting in game, but if the person making the item in the toolset is worth their salt, they would be setting the items price correctly so it can be vendored for what it is worth.

Other players might haggle on the value, though.

Only ran across a couple of items like that so far.. luckily.. And had a DM help me in getting them sold.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Zelknolf »

Stormbring3r wrote:Also.. How about fixing the "if someone made it its not worth crap if a player sells it later on" bug..
If you have an item that's "worth crap," there are a few likely sources of this:
-- possibility 1: It's flagged as plot (potentially because it behaves strangely if you try to sell it-- like maybe some magic on it stops you), and you need a DM to sell it anyway
-- possibility 2: It's flagged as stolen (probably because it looks it. "Nono," says the halfling, "I got this holy symbol of Corellon from a friend. He just, y'know, gave it to me... the inscription? Naaaaw, I'm Thalantyr."), and you need a DM to sell it anyway
-- possibility 3: the item really isn't worth very much, even when nothing taints its value. There's plenty of examples of minor magical items floating about. Our servers certainly have more of them than the powerful items worth thousands.
-- possibility 4: You're talking to merchants with a finite supply of money that can be used to purchase your item (this is an especially-visible mechanic on Moonshaes. It's very rare to find any merchant who even has more than 200 gold there. They'll offer you all of it for your staff of the magi, and you indeed would be stupid to take such a deal)
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Stormbring3r »

Lol.. I have ran across the broke merchants who off better than 75% resale price for items but never seem to have any gold..

I have a DM/Plot item now but I never tried to sell it..

Usually don't steal from people even though my toon could if she wanted to :-p

I have ran across even loot drops, that if one was to purchase it, was around 20 gold. But when tried to sell it no one would buy it.. Thats what I was referring to more or less.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by MaskedIllusion »

Ok i read half of this, skipped the other half because it seems to have gotten off topic. I just want to say I am in favor of this idea. Yes, some uber items and what not should require a dm plot to make and all that. But crafting "simple" stuff, i have never seen a dm give out a huge plot of a head band of INT +1. Or something to that effect. And that is where this would come in handy. It would also help eliminate the "Ok I asked Dm X, who has not logged in for a while, so now i either need to wait, or go bug another DM who may or may not be able to help" (As it was said, not all dms know how to tool set things.) Some of you may go "big deal, be patient" but, it kind of is a big deal, especially depending on the item. If I give up my armor to be enchanted, or the like, then i am with out armor for the whole time the DM who was asked to handle it has not logged in.

But its also a big deal because it is slightly meta and ooc. "Crafter: Ok, this item will take a week to make" Player: "Ok". Then two weeks later real life time you have to go back and meta that all that time skipping never happened, or you have to look at your crafter and go "Wtf took you so long" Now I know, comic book time, alfa is big on comic book time. I will not nay say comic book time here. But, i will say, if there are situations where we can avoid using it, then shouldn't we try?

Now, I am not saying even with a CDM everything will get done 100% on time and happy happy, but, i think it would greatly help if each server had a dm dedicated to taking crafting requests assuming it is not a quest that requires a dm plot to do. It would also help stop the "Well DM X hasn't logged in for a week, should I ask another dm, or should me and the player simply keep waiting"
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Castano »

the issue with this proposal is it asks us to appoint a person from the community to do work, not enjoyment. Who will I force/beg to do this, what if no one steps up?

You are better off trying to get automated crafting of +1 ability items, +5 skillpoint, and +1 weapons and armors. That would be a step forwards.

That said if the original poster wants to apply they are welcome to be the CDM for MS.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Galadorn »

In fact a major part of the OP was to see if anyone wanted to volunteer to fill this role. When I posted it, there was a person who in fact after a small discussion with me a few days earlier, about the whole idea, that was the catalyst for the OP in the first place.

It won't work if the CDM does not actually want to do it.

I might volunteer someday, but to do that i'd need more personal time to do the duties i'd want to do to give the position it's due justice, and a 100% fully compatible ALFA toolset. Not to mention the approval of 4 HDMs to give me DM powers enough to mule items onto every Server, and a DM wand to suck gold and XP off any crafters who need the help when the work gets done. I'd never abuse such powers, just don't appeal to me.

Otherwise it was just a proposal :). It came about from not only my own concerns regarding the "difficulties" of crafting custom gear and enchanting items, but many others who had mild to strong concerns about the whole business.

it's all good :)
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Castano »

Galadorn wrote:In fact a major part of the OP was to see if anyone wanted to volunteer to fill this role. When I posted it, there was a person who in fact after a small discussion with me a few days earlier, about the whole idea, that was the catalyst for the OP in the first place.

I will support this if someone steps forward to fill the slot. My only concern was filling the post.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Galadorn »

Cast, if i was to somehow fill this post for MS, I assume I cannot play on MS yes? Or would I be still able to?

I would love to do it, but again for the reasons I listed above, I just might not be the best candidate. And very importantly for me, I do not want to lose access to play on MS. :(


I mean it is NOT actually a "DM" position in effect (it would not allow "adventure DM'ing", or even adhoc DMing etc, since the whole end of the means is to provide a pure crafting custom items and enchanting service through a dedicated person without other distractions at all, thus the service would be fast and effective), but it would at it's core allow removal of Gold and XP from a crafter's PC ((All OOC))...thus relieving that chore from any other DMs on the server. Which would help them spend more time doing other things, and also the crafter and "customer of the crafter" would get their buisness completed faster, etc.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Ithildur »

Galadorn wrote:Cast, if i was to somehow fill this post for MS, I assume I cannot play on MS yes? Or would I be still able to?

I would love to do it, but again for the reasons I listed above, I just might not be the best candidate. And very importantly for me, I do not want to lose access to play on MS. :(


I mean it is NOT actually a "DM" position in effect (it would not allow "adventure DM'ing", or even adhoc DMing etc, since the whole end of the means is to provide a pure crafting custom items and enchanting service through a dedicated person without other distractions at all, thus the service would be fast and effective), but it would at it's core allow removal of Gold and XP from a crafter's PC ((All OOC))...thus relieving that chore from any other DMs on the server. Which would help them spend more time doing other things, and also the crafter and "customer of the crafter" would get their buisness completed faster, etc.
Aside from the obvious potential for conflict of interest, how would you even do this if you played on MS? i.e. deduct xp and gold from your own PC, give item, etc. without involving another player or DM (which defeats the point of having this role to begin with)? No player should be given the ability to do this to their own PC, I think.

There was a point where Foam was quite willing I think to handle stuff like this for MS... though atm I think he's a bit burnt out/busy with RL. He could be another candidate perhaps for an ALFA wide position, but ironically he also plays a crafting PC... perhaps the two of you guys could do this and share the load, and handle things for each others' PCs. Regardless, I think every item crafted thus needs to have a report submitted to HDM or a member of the crafter's DM team.
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Re: The Crafting Dungeon Master or "CDM"

Post by Galadorn »

Yes yes yes and yes.

I would never even ask for the approval to perform these duties for my own PC if I was a CDM. I guess I could have stated that.

And I would fully accept (as I always have with great patience) any delays in servicing my own PC wrt this entire issue even if I was a CDM for everyone else.

Contrary to what I assume is popular belief, I am not proposing this for me. I will admit it will make wht I DO easier of course.

What I can say though for a fact based on years of exprience, is, I do know where this proposal CAN make the game experience for ALL crafters, and for customers of crafters much much better.

ASIDE: I never expect or demand anything even when technically it should be. :)

I have experienced delays for items for my own PC, as well as items that were commissioned by other PCs from my PC, that have lasted into the "months", and a few never ever did get fulfilled, and at rare times I had to discuss the reimbursement of downpayments to PCs due to the delays (huge cringe-worthy OOC affecting IC situations - but i'm not complaining :) ). Either we agreed it "just ain't gonna happen", or, it took so long, that the customer just decided he/she wanted the money for something else by then :).
I do not complain.
I will never lie and say it was not a little frustrating, and sometimes I might wonder "Why?", of course. :)
But, I have never complained, I understand completely that it's a VERY awesome thing and a great privilege when a DM devotes the time to implement custom gear or services the enchanting feats provide for any PC.
I just think, and the purpose for the OP, was how great it would be for everyone involved in and around this entire "thing" (crafting custom gear and or enchanting, etc), if a volunteer who would ENJOY doing this as their sole duty, if stepped up, that any (many? some?) future frustrations either mild or heavy might be avoided for the better of all involved. :)


Aside #2:
I have not so recently adopted a very strict code for myself due to my expriences:

1.) I have all tech/toolsetting fully complete and ready for any item.
*(all that remains for any DM, is to just get the item into a module, and mule it onto a DM avatar)

2.) Only after 1) above is complete, I then seek DM approval/let-someone-know my intentions, giving all information to a DM, usually an HDM. When someone at least "KNOWS" what is going on I proceed to 3) below.

3.) I then complete MORE than the required RP in game.
*(the required RP in-game is 30 minutes per day per 1000 gold value, when my PC Crafts, if I plan to play ALFA for say 4 hours, sometimes I even stay there crafting for 4 hours for jsut that 1 day's worth of crafting...my PC claims complete dedication (IC) to his work for any customers ....if others are on that I might have fun RP'ing with, I might leave the crafting after an hour or more to RP a bit, and, if i'm required to RP the 30 minutes a day for say 4 days, I usually do an "extra day" above the required days anyway. So for a pair of Gloves +2 Strength, (4000 gold), I will craft 5 days)

4.) When 3) is complete, I then let either the same DM above or another DM know the job is done. Only discussed once.

5.) I then forget about it for at LEAST a week and usually more.

6.) I then after that week+ might ask very politely on chat, or in a PM about the status.

7.) I then forget about it again for at least a week and usually more.

8.) I then after that 2nd week+ might very politely send another very mild reminder.

...etc...

Please remember: The only thing a DM has to do: Since toolsetting, item approval, payment, and RP has been met... is drop the item on an Avatar... meet in game, trade item and drain Gold and XP from the crafter.

Please note: More often than you might believe, due to "other player"'s frustrations involving my PC's work for them, I have had to calm down very many players OOC who have wanted to go postal about the delays they are suffering due to the delays my PC has endured getting their enchanted gear into the game. I argue with THEM, and try my best to convince these players that "this is how it works", the DMs are busy, we should never even come close to assuming any "priority" regardless. So calm down. It will happen when it happens. This is another reason for my OP.
Bottom line here is, even if the other PC makes complaints, unfortunately, since my PC is the crafter, the "blame" for complaints always ends up on my lap, and unjustifiably I look like the one who's impatient or demanding, when I garantee you, I am NOT. :)

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