This is by far the best way to get custom gear / enchant anything. For me, even doing "special tasks" or DM-requested RP for even enchanting a +1 Dagger would be my first choice always. I'm not asking for that or anything, nor expect it.Mick wrote:...occasionally PCs and/or players might have to jump through some RP and/or adventuring hoops, depending on what special trinket they wish to create.
The proposal was mostly to give DMs a break from the extra time they might have to put into the whole OOC part of a crafting incident. And for players to have a go-to person immediately no matter where they are located (since item toolsetting and input into a module is entirely OOC so location is irrelevant wrt the OOC part), and to be able to trust in a return in an expected/reasonable time.
The RP around an enchant is a different issue altogether.
If a DM need not do any of the OOC toolsetting and implementation of any custom gear or enchantings, then that DM has more time to DM-play.
This would be very cool. Right now it's not available, and most items ordered by PCs are low level, less expensive items. Which makes them faster to save up for, very important for survival, and faster to make by crafters. Since items can be later "upgraded" as well, most PCs as soon as they have the coin for +1, will of course get the +1 crafted, keeping them alive longer until they can save up the rest for a +2 etc. So there is a lot of smaller, cheapest, fast items being requested, especially by other PCs player-run, since they can always get items cheaper this way! Not to mention they can actually share the experience with the crafter, actualyl role-playing WHAT they want. And then toolset the item themselves or asking a toolsetter to custom make a cool "look" of their item as well... which is very popular compared to buying generic made items from vendors in game.t-ice wrote: Aren't we having a automated crafting system for this kind of thing? One that makes it possible to create the kind of items that can also be had in shops totally without DM burden (under 4000gp as I recall...)
I would say in a perfect world ALL items should only be present within the context of a story a DM tells.t-ice wrote: Uber epic (and storyful) items should only be present within the context of a story a DM tells, anyway. Having a CDM who wants to assist other DMs would be great, of course. But somehow I'm getting the proposal here is to have players make item creation requests and not DMs, so as to have a separate entity that players can go to to turn their hard-farmed gold into uber items, thereby circumventing the DM team that runs stories for them. This is not good.
And "uber items" would never be "only CDM" jurisdiction, and as mentioned in the OP, definitely at least a collaboration of CDM and DM.
When I DM in PnP, I absolutely never give out "Dagger +1" in any treasure hoard.
I either hand-draw a picture of one, or find a super cool picture of a wiked looking dagger online, then write up a half page or more history for the item including who made it, where it came from etc, and its properties are never "Just +1". The dagger will almost always have a history, and include an extra bonus against "something" like... '+1/+2 vs. Lizardfolk', and additionally, when weilded, the weilder gains +1 to Hide checks (or something), this property would also be related to some relevant part of the weapon's history, this weapon might also inclulde a minus to a certain skill check, like, also when held, the weilder suffers a -2 to Charisma based checks with any "Draconic" race, etc, etc. And the list just might go on.
Instead of that: "You find a +1 Dagger".
Finally, i'd print the whole thing off and present it to the player (if the history and properties were found out of course by the player, Bard PCs could roll Legend Lore abilities and slowly reveal these histories and properties, making that what once was a "Dagger +1", into a little RP mini adventure for more than one PC.)
...............But.....
.......we know that's asking a bit much, as well, many do not believe +1 and even +2 gear is "worthy" of a DM story... but most would agree getting to 3rd, 4th, 5th? level, PCs should be swinging a +1 sword and have money enough to maybe upgrade some armor to at least +1...etc.
Item creation requests when a PC saves up and knows another PC is a crafter is always player requested really.
The proposal never ever assumed ANY requests would ever circumvent any DM.
The proposal as re-stated above in this reply, is MAINLY to make the whole OOC related process much easier for ALL parties involved.
Basically that a seperate volunteer (who knows pricing, and toolsetting etc), fully at least informing DM(s), would help to work on or do all of the OOC stuff related to implementing custom gear or enchanting items. Again, making the whole process easier and faster for the DM and players involved.
Yes. all of the above is exactly what I thought would help DMs and players.t-ice wrote:If I run a plot with, say, giants as enemies, I really don't want for my players to go to the CDM between two installments to have giant slaying arrows made. The stuff that is good for them to go have made are generics (say cloak of elvenkind to better hide from giants), like the ones we have in shops and could be automated by crafting. It's all great of course if I can ask the CDM to create giant slaying arrows for me because I don't have the aptitude, so that I can run the plot of the PCs trying to get their hands on them.
And of course, players would not go out and request things like giant slaying arrows between your sessions! Since anything like that would of course need approval by a DM. The CDM could probably easily ask a few quick questions to the player making the item request, and verify anything questionable with you before doing any work. I don't think people would use the CDM this way.
This is exactly how I see the CDM acting. Sure, initial requests could be directed at a DM first. Why not. And if all is well, bring in the CDM, and the DM does not have to do anything else until the CDM, who has chosen to do this work, ...has done so in a faster time (most likely), exactly as requested, and the item furthermore is custom and requires no more "pricing approval" or modification by anyone, and can be passed on to any server.t-ice wrote:That's the whole point. Those are for the active DM (and the server DM team by extension) to decide. Not the players, nor a global CDM. (The players first ask the DM, and then the DM then asks the CDM to help provide the items to the players, if the PCs are deemd to have the resources to solve the problem by crafting behind the scenes)Ith wrote:in the flow of normal time if such a person has that ability/skill and invested in it, why in the world would they not use it if they have the time and materials, money, ingredients etc?
Because obtaining the resources are likely a huge part of the plot. Like, say the party could make those giant slaying arrows but they'd need the heart of a dwarf as an ingredient... do they murder one, and if they do, do they pick a soft innocent target or fight that powerful, eeevul duargar?
If obtaining materials ARE even a minor part of any part of a plot then the DM of course takes over. Requests to the CDM can be made as DMs need them.
I believe a CDM's job would be 99% involved in examples of such:
PC1 has MW Armor from a shop. (cost is considerable enough)
PC1 saved 1000 gold.
PC1 asks PC2-crafter to enchant his armor to +1.
PC2 charges whatever but cheaper than 1000.
CDM informs DM a minor enchanting is requested and sends a PM (templated?) to DM for reference.
CDM makes, brings in, and gives PC2 the item, and takes gold and XP from the crafter PC2.
PC2 heads off to RP the trade to PC1.
Believe me, there are very many such commissions. Very many.
Having a seperate entity be able to do the legwork around these "non-DM-story-related" expected upgrades that almost all PCs go through, I think is very helpful to all involved.
As I stated above, i'd rather all magic items be mythical creations with a long history, which is why at least my own enchanted items have unique and detailed descriptions.
nooooooBrokenbone wrote: A "global" customer service DM makes limited sense. Each server team though might do well to have someone who knows the first thing about pricing, and has a good awareness of where weird ingredients / research might be required through their HDM. Like TSM, special materials, you may look hard at "how well do I know the dwarves under those mountains full of metal"? In BG it might be "I bet the Underdark is the best place to get rare stuff." It could be in cases, teams may just say "don't care, RP sending a letter to Waterdeep Walmart, package of exactly what you need arrives in 2 RL weeks for precisely the market price, not a penny more." Because in an iron-age type world, I figure mail order like Amazon is 100% reliable, no caravan ever gets robbed, no merchant ever vanishes with your deposit
This is the reason I liked the term "CDM"... this person would be accepted by the HDMs across ALFA as a person with as much a trusted presence within the ALFA community as any other DM. Which is to say, the CDM COULD do it for anyone without approval (in my perfect world), but of course there would never be completely blind "transactions" between players and CDM ever anyway, the process could easily incorporate part of the procedure including infoming a DM about a request before starting a job!
Having one person per server in-the-know of course would be awesome. Like I initially suggested... a CDM on EACH Server, would also be really great. Right now there is not one official go-to person really. And DMs come and go. If the CDM decides to step down, he/she could let teh community know and a new one could step up, whatever, so this service could continue. If a DM normally does help a Player out in this regard, and that DM then quits DMing, that player must then look around and approach another DM if he/she needs help. Believe me, this is much harder than anyone might think. And while on paper the players requesting this help should be justified, since they spent very valuable feats to be able to do it, it is still hard to ask. And another player is spending in-game gold for a service that he/she "should(?)" get his or her money for?
It's not a "Waterdeep Walmart" system I was proposing at all . It was to facilitate PC to PC transfers - not for anyone to just PM the CDM, and ask an NPC somewhere to make and ship them an item.
Making the entire process quicker and easier for both parties involved of course should involve a DM... but, this way that DM would not have to have a toolset even... nor any knowledge of the pricing rules of ALFA, etc. The CDM on that server or the global CDM would have all that ready to go making whatever part of the whole procedure and process easier and faster for all involved.
Not only that the CDM most likely would start out as an item expert, which would be a invaluable asset for DMs and players in ALFA, and with some experience just get more and more knowledgeable with respect to all things gear related. As of now, if I want to know anything, I have to ask around maybe 2-3 people, and I get different answers usually about the price or approval possibilities of the SAME item.
With one CDM, there would not be any discrepancies about whether an item is A) Legal, or B) price in game and cost to craft/enchant.