Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Ideas and suggestions for game mechanics and rules.
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Dorn
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Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Dorn »

Arianna wrote:
Dorn wrote:Is there some way to create wandering/random monsters that also has the option for trigger pseudo-IC warnings when logging into a map?

Potential:
- HDM flags appropriate server areas that are easy, moderate and hard
- Wandering monster script fires only in moderate and hard areas (eg moderate for TSM may be all wild areas except for the main highway, high risk areas those in the mountains)
- Zelk invents a really clever global script that triggers on a player logging on and spawns something 100% of the time
- the spawn is 10% wandering friendly adventurers or a Ranger, 30% friendly random wild animals, 20% brigands who can be bribed or fought, 40% monsters who will kill
- CR cap is something like 1-3 in moderate areas 1-7 in hard areas
- the spawn on any part of the map out of spot range from the PC and either camp or move (random)
- in moderate areas also trigger a message such as brigands *you hear raised harsh voices ahead suddenly go quiet *, or for monsters *you hear a roar up ahead* or somin.
- no warning in hard areas...use a scout!

SO we have:
  • safe places for newbs (like my PC!)
    interesting places for not quite newbs any more
    challenge for mid levels
    DMs to manage farming
    (potentially) opportunity to expand the script to spawn small quest givers, random dungeons etc

right . . . wonderful idea

now can you assign me about 5 builders to implement that sort of thing ? I certainly do not have the ability to do all that sort of stuff on the 100+ exteriors and interiors that are something other then town shops and inns any time in the next . . .oh . . few years . .. I am currently working on making low level quests in the main starting town to get that lowbie to at least level two . . . if they want to wander off into the wilderness I am not going to hold their hands the entire journey

Consider that spawns only have a x% chance to spawn in alot of areas so a warning trigger would not always be warranted.
ALFA was never suppose to be a place where you could solo anything but a fetch/delivery quest easily and those sometimes take you through dangerous territory . . . oh maybe . . .A pc could bother to read the dialogs of quest givers and take warnings to heart rather then just going CLICK CLICK ...CLICK... got it ...without paying attention to what they have , where they are going or how dangerous it might be.

I have thought about putting level restrictions on Quests but am told that doing so limits RP and grouping for quests . . .. even if it keeps the more dangerous quests away from the lowbies that constantly want to solo
Zelknolf wrote:You've described the core featureset of the ACR Spawn system.

We've got that ability, and more, but it's a lot of effort to get the level of complexity you're asking for. Our build lately has been trending in that direction (better to have areas dense with content than lots of empty areas, by the eyes of current build efforts) but there's a ~lot~ of empty areas to work on.
playing Nathaniel Ward - Paladin of the Morninglord and devout of Torm (cookie cutter and proud of it)
Dorn
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Dorn »

Sorry i think i explained it poorly.

Concept:

1) Player enters area
2) Script triggers and searches area-properties for a flag - returns 'High', 'Medium' or 'script absent'
3) If return is 'medium' or 'high' a spawn is created 1200% of the time randomly from one of 3 or 4 per-determined lists/criteria (half of which are no-risk...aww look at the pretty horses!)
4) On spawn an IC message associated with those lists is sent to all players in the party

I expect the wizardry and complexity is in step 3...potentially this could be simplified to just two lists (animals or challenge) and limited to one criteria CR 1-3 to make it easier.

So in terms of a builders role:
DM team considers the 100 areas
Discards all internal areas (down to 50 areas?)
Discards all 'safe' areas being towns, key roads (down to 30 areas?)
Looks at 30 areas and makes a judgement call to determine those places visited semi-regularly and therefore that would benefit players with some 'life' more than others (down to 25?)
Then a builder needs to add a single pre-written line of script into the area properties for each of those areas that will flag a high or medium risk. Maybe 5 a week?
Then (maybe?) insert the global script (provided by TA team) once system ready to go

TA teams role:
Do the script development (really hard)
Test (annoying)
Send out (click!)

So in a nutshell it is a way of creating content WITHOUT needing 5 builders over a year and the IMPORTANT work of developing truly interactive scripting content as Ari pointed out is the focus.

Disclaimer again:
I have NO idea if this is how our script base works. Zelks response above makes me think kinda...and if we made it a little less complex than i first proposed it could be possible

I also do not know if it is a good or bad idea. It was just a thought bubble in relation to the discussion kid and zelk were having about bare areas.

I DO, however, think that ALFA 1 servers (well my experience wiht ALFA 1 the long road, loudwater, baldurs gate, Dford) had vastly more static spawn content than ALFA2 servers once off the main roads. Not quests but spawns. And we managed through that ok so i don't think we need to be worried about farming too much.

Anyways, just a 'brainstorm'
playing Nathaniel Ward - Paladin of the Morninglord and devout of Torm (cookie cutter and proud of it)
Zelknolf
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Zelknolf »

So, posted from the other thread:
I get what you're saying-- this is a kind of build that builders can currently do. There's a lot of stuff in ALFA that's just... y'know... folk not knowing our featureset. I also might be the only person who knows even most of it. It's pretty difficult to get folk up to speed on stuff.

The thing you're describing can be done. You can indeed mark an area as dangerous territory, make certain that it always spawns something, and match up dangerous spawns with spawned triggers that say "Dangerous stuff, guys!" This can even be written in the generic and handed off to the servers to an extent.

We're still talking about an enormous build project to get all of our areas updated for such a thing-- especially if we want our wandering monsters to make sense. Consider how much of a struggle it was for servers to get up to speed with infestations, and that still not everyone's at pace with random dungeons-- and those features were asking for significantly less from our server teams.
I think the disconnects are not knowing that acquiring the "something" to spawn is a lot of work, the effort of a flag-based system is equal to the effort of a spawn-group-based system, and ALFA's closer to 1700 areas.
Dorn
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Dorn »

Ah well.

Another silver bullet misfired!

Maybe when you get paid to build NWN3 you can make scripting capability greater and easier at the same time :)
playing Nathaniel Ward - Paladin of the Morninglord and devout of Torm (cookie cutter and proud of it)
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Wynna
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Wynna »

However. I can make this happen on an area by area basis on TSM. Or something with the same effect. I've been subconsciously stewing about empty areas for a while now, while my conscious coding/building was directed elsewhere. I'll figure something out.
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Zelknolf
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Zelknolf »

Wynna wrote:However. I can make this happen on an area by area basis on TSM. Or something with the same effect. I've been subconsciously stewing about empty areas for a while now, while my conscious coding/building was directed elsewhere. I'll figure something out.
Yes, this is probably going to be the practical solution for this sort of effect, and was something of the design of spawn groups. BG has a few good examples of full camps linked up to a spawn group.


As always, tech is around to help with implementations.
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Adanu
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Adanu »

Dorn wrote:Ah well.

Another silver bullet misfired!

Maybe when you get paid to build NWN3 you can make scripting capability greater and easier at the same time :)
Not misfired, simply "We have enough on our plate and this is a shitload of work, help us with it."
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Wynna
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Wynna »

I'm well underway on the first step: reviewing empty areas and placing spawns. TSM is getting livelier by the day.
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Mick
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Re: Filling up 'empty spaces' automatically

Post by Mick »

Wynna wrote:I'm well underway on the first step: reviewing empty areas and placing spawns. TSM is getting livelier by the day.
This is very much appreciated! Thanks again for your efforts.
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